Episode 88: JFK - What do we make of James Files?

Did James Files kill JFK? Was he working with members of the Chicago mob to murder Kennedy? Or is Files, as Bugliosi calls him, "the Rodney Dangerfield" of JFK *ssassins?

Links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Files

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4226130/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Killed_Kennedy

https://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Parkland-Vincent-Bugliosi-Assassina/dp/1626365334

Need more? You can visit the website at: https://consaracytheories.com/ or my own site at: https://saracausey.com/. Don't forget to check out the blog at: https://consaracytheories.com/blog. 

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Transcript

Transcription by Otter.ai.  Please forgive any typos!

The discussion centers on James Files, who claims to have assassinated President John F. Kennedy. Files, serving a 50-year sentence for attempted murder, has been interviewed extensively and implicated Charles Nicoletti and John Roselli in the conspiracy. Despite the FBI's dismissal of his claims, Playboy and a 2022 YouTube interview by Ted Nelson have given him some credibility. Files' story includes details about his involvement with the CIA's Charlie India Alpha and the Chicago mob. The conversation also touches on the credibility of his confession, the potential for disinformation, and the skepticism surrounding his motives and the evidence he presents.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

James Files, JFK assassination, grassy knoll, Charles Nicoletti, John Roselli, FBI investigation, Playboy magazine, Ted Nelson, Joe West, David Attlee Phillips, Chicago mob, C!A, Lee Harvey Oswald, conspiracy theories, immunity.

Welcome to con-sara-cy theories. Are you ready to ask questions you shouldn't and find information you're not supposed to know? Well, you're in the right place. Here is your host, Sara Causey.

Hello, hello, and thanks for tuning in. In tonight's episode, I want to ask the question, what do we make of James Files? Anytime someone comes forward years later and confesses to some crime of absolute infamy. It's like the person wants to paint a bullseye on their own back and say, I did it. It was me. What's their motivation? Are they crazy? Are they sincere? Are they after money? Are they after fame? If they're sitting in jail, do they feel like this is a bargaining chip so they can get released early things that make you say, hmm. So let's pour up a frosty beverage of choice this evening and decide. What do we think of this guy? James files, I found this documentary on Amazon Prime called I killed JFK. I think I paid 99 cents to rent it, which seems about right. Seems about the correct price point, although free would have been even better. Let's hop over for a minute to the James files Wikipedia page, just so there's a good starting point. So if you've never heard this name before and you're like, Who the hell is James files? And why should I have any opinion about this guy at all? Let's begin at the beginning. James files, also known as James Sutton, is an American former prisoner in 1994 while serving a 50 year sentence for the 1991 attempted murders of two police officers. Files gave interviews stating that he was the grassy knoll pop popper in the 1963 pop pop of United States President John F Kennedy files has subsequently been interviewed by others and discussed in multiple books pertaining to the pop pop and related theories. In 1994 the Federal Bureau of Investigation was quoted as having investigated files allegation and found it not to be credible. In 2010 Playboy magazine published an article by Hillel Levin in which files also implicated Charles Nicoletti and John Roselli in the pop pop of Kennedy in 2022 Ted Nelson posted a video interview with files on his YouTube channel. Background files has stated he was born in Alabama, moved to California with his family shortly thereafter, then to an Italian neighborhood in Chicago on May 7, 1991 files and his friend David Morley were involved in a roadside shootout in Round Lake Beach, Illinois with two police officers, Detective David Ostertag and his partner, Gary Bitler, Ostertag and Bitler tried to apprehend the two for driving a stolen vehicle. During the shootout, Morley shot detective Ostertag in the chest. Both files and Morley shot at detective Bitler, but missed files and Morley then fled on foot, but were arrested a few hours later, files was charged with two counts of attempted murder and one count each of discharge of a firearm, aggravated battery with a firearm and armed violence. In August 1991 a jury found files guilty of two counts of attempted murder. He was sentenced to 30 years for the shooting of detective Ostertag and 20 years for attempting to shoot detective Bitler files was initially imprisoned at Stateville Correctional Center in crest Hill, Illinois, before being transferred to Danville Correctional Center in Danville, Illinois, files was paroled in May 2016 an anonymous Foxtrot Bravo India, source later identified as Zach Shelton, has been reported by some researchers as having told Joe West, a private investigator in Houston in The early 1990s about an inmate in an Illinois penitentiary who might have information about the Kennedy murder on August 17, 1992 West interviewed files at Stateville Correctional Center in crest Hill, Illinois. After West's death in 1993 his family requested that his friend Houston television producer Bob Vernon take over the records concerning the story. Vernon is the owner of a bullet casing with teeth marks on it, even though it was not found until 1987 critical analysis, Vincent Bugliosi, author of reclaiming history, the pop pop of President John F Kennedy has characterized files as the Rodney Dangerfield of Kennedy pop poppers. According to Bugliosi, very few, within the majority of Americans, 75% who believe there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy respect him or his story. However, psychology professor Jerome croth described files as surprisingly credible, and said his story is the most believable and persuasive about the Pop. Pop. End quote. So there you go, point point counterpoint. You have Bugliosi calling him the Rodney Dangerfield of Kennedy pop poppers. But then you have this person, Jerome crowth or Croft, however, he says it, who says that files is surprisingly credible. So let's dive in here and come to our own conclusions. In this documentary, I killed JFK, we see footage of the witnesses in Dealey Plaza rushing to the grassy knoll. Malcolm killed up is seen at the press conference, indicating the fatal shot was at JFK temple. We see John Hughes, who was a co author of the book JFK, and Sam saying that James files murdered JFK as a young man. He was a member of the Giancana team, and his immediate boss was Nicoletti. Nicoletti boss was Sam Giancana. Nicoletti was an intrinsic part of Sam's outfit in Chicago. We hear now from a man named Bruce by check, a self professed friend of James files. Jimmy Sutton was born in Alabama in 1942 he changed his name to James files. He lived in Alabama for seven or eight years, then moved to Chicago around 1958 or nine. He joined the army. He was sent to Vietnam and then to Laos and Cambodia in 1960 to 61 while back in the US, he was recruited as James Sutton by David Attlee Phillips for the Charlie India Alpha. He returned to Chicago and gets involved with Charles Nicoletti. Now we hear from Zach Shelton, retired Foxtrot Bravo India. In this investigation, I identified the fact that files was hijacking tractor trailer loads of merchandise and bringing them to Chicago and selling them. We were able to purchase three of these loads. And with the conversation that we had with files, it was known that he was a buddy of Nicoletti. Through the investigation, I was able to come very close to an individual that files knew. This individual told me that once in Dallas, Texas, they went through Dealey Plaza. Files became very weird, and made a comment to the effect that if the American people really knew what happened, no one would be able to handle it. In 1992 Joe West, a private investigator, meets up with Zach Shelton. Shelton says I told Joe West about this comment that files had made in 1979 and told him, if he wanted to check up on a good lead, he should find files. At that time, I knew files was incarcerated. West and files begin developing a rapport. Files says he'll confess to his involvement in JFK murder if granted immunity from prosecution. We're told that West was trying to negotiate such immunity when he suddenly took ill and died in 1993 we hear now from a man named Richard stilling, who's retired Foxtrot Bravo India, there's reason for a reasonable person to believe further in depth investigation is required. Zach Shelton, as far as who was in Dallas on the day of November 22 1963 we have James files, Nicoletti, who was a top sub boss in the Chicago mob, Johnny Roselli, the link between the mob and the Charlie India alpha at the time that morning, Tosh Plumlee flew into Dallas with Roselli in the 1980s Plumlee testified at the Iran Contra hearings, where he said he was a pilot for the Charlie India Alpha Shelton. There are individuals such as Chauncey Holt who received a letter from Peter licavelli to come to the grace ranch and pick up lips a mob associate out of Detroit and Chuck Nicoletti Holt said he drove both to Dallas and arrived late on November 21 or early morning of November 22 prior to JFK murder, the mob were in bed with the Charlie India Alpha Holt also becomes involved in this web of Mafia plus Charlie India Alpha work. We see an interview with Chauncey Holt saying they had a ridiculous plan to use organized crime. Some murders they are good at, and some they are not. They enlisted Giancana and Roselli. Now we hear from Tosh Plumlee. I knew Roselli well. I've flown him perhaps more than six or seven times. Last part of 61st part of 61 this was at best game park. We came from a meeting place called sloppy joes on Flagler Street in Miami. We hear now from James files. I was well aware that Roselli was involved in government actions. He was like the license between the Charlie India alpha and organized crime. And he was heavily involved in the invasion of Cuba JFK is unwillingness to invade Cuba created an alignment between anti Castro Cubans the mafia and the Charlie India Alpha. Each felt they'd be better off with Kennedy out of the way, in my personal notes I've written, we hear this narrative a lot, and I think in some respects, the proof is in the pudding, because what Johnson immediately did was foment the Vietnam War. However, what we don't see Johnson do is immediately invade Cuba and depose Fidel Castro.

A plot to kill Castro is turned into a plot to kill JFK. So we're told Lee Harvey Oswald is a ready made Patsy. We go back now to James files. I. I went down a week before the murder. I made two telephone calls when I got there. I called Nicoletti, and then David attley Phillips, he was my controller. Oswald, came by the motel where I was and he took me out to test fire weapons and calibrate scopes. He was with me for a few days. We never discussed the murder of JFK. In my personal notes, I've written his eyes are all over. He seems shifty to me. We go now to Judith Barry Baker, who needs to be her own episode. I really want to get further into what do we make of Judith Barry Baker, and what do we make about her stories of creating a turbo cancer? Honestly, we have to hope that it's false. But my God, what if it's not? So Judith says, meanwhile, Lee was telling me various names, and I remember Roselli. And one of the last things Lee told me was that I should not forget the name David Attlee Phillips. The last phone call that I received from Lee was Wednesday, November 20. At this particular time, he was part of an abort team, a team trying to stop the murder. David's whereabouts on November 22 were confirmed by his brother James. James stated that his brother admitted to him that he was in Dallas on the day of JFK murder. We go back now to Tosh Plumlee. Our team flew out of West Palm Beach, a place called lantana. We were military intelligence Charlie India Alpha ran support for us. The impression that I had was that we were flying a team into Dallas to abort the murder, and Roselli was on board that flight, as well as a couple of Cubans and people connected to organized crime in New Orleans. Go back now to files. We were on the way to Fort Worth, and I asked Johnny Roselli when he got in, and he said I got in this morning. He said he flew in on a mat, as in military air transport service. He said it was a ride sponsored by the Charlie India Alpha. Roselli said he was going to meet Jack Ruby. Ruby passed an envelope to Roselli, and there was identification in there for Secret Service people, and we had a map of the exact motorcade route. About 10:30am Nicoletti asked me, How do you feel about being back up. Nicoletti says Roselli is feeling paranoid. The Charlie India Alpha has called the hit off. Nicoletti exact words were, fuck them. It's going anyway. Files claims he came up with the idea of the grassy knoll for cover, as well as the possibility of posing as a railroad worker. He also said the dal tech building would give the best vantage point, about 1110, he asked me for a weapon file says he wanted to use the fireball. We go back now to Judith. Lee told me the attempt to kill Kennedy would either be at the airport or at Dealey Plaza or at the trademark he believed it would be at Dealey Plaza. I've written in my personal notes, this is not rocket science, because JFK stops in Dallas were limited. There were only going to be so many opportunities if someone wanted to murder him that day, for that person to choose. We go back now to Tosh Plumlee. We had people that filtrated out into the plaza, and the objection there was to get next to anyone that possibly could have been a shooter and take them out back to files. I went back to the plaza, secured the car, got my briefcase out with a gun. I went to the railroad yard and secured things. My last instructions were, we're going for a head shot. Don't fire unless you have to. I was aiming for his right eye as I squeezed his head, moved forward and I missed and hit him in the temple. I never saw Nicoletti shoot Kennedy, but I know he was supposed to do it. Tosh Plumlee confirms he smelled Gun Smoke on the grassy knoll. Chauncey Holt the minute all these shots were fired, we knew that something had gone awry. I was sure that Oswald had been set up. Back to Plumlee, we went into abort. However, I don't rule out the possibility that we could have flown in the attack team. John Hughes claims that members of the Giancana family have been presented with files claims and cannot identify an instance where he is lying. We go back now to files. All I knew that Giancana knew were the parts of Nicoletti and Roselli. Giancana had never discussed it with me, only Nicoletti and Roselli. We kept a tight circle. Shelton says a lot of files story. He has been able to verify the HSCA in 1978 went back to Dallas and conducted acoustics tests and concluded there were four shots. One was from the grassy knoll. This shot is exactly where files says that he was standing. Shelton even claims that the Mormon photo figure was of James files. Files claims that his fireball boom stick was given to him by David attle Phillips, a Texas man named John Rademacher and his son discovered a 222, shell casing on the grassy knoll in 1987 an anthropologist, said the shell casing was consistent with a 1963 deposition date. We go back now to files. I took the shell casing, I bit down on it, I set it on the stockade fence, and there was an indentation from my teeth in 1993 Dr Paul G Stimson, a dental forensic expert from the university. Of Texas wrote a letter that marks on the 222 shell casing were human teeth marks. He identified the teeth as right Central and lower right central incisors. We're told that no publicity had been made about this. So how could files know about it? Unless he actually did it. We go back now to files as I was leaving Dealey Plaza, no one tried to stop me. Excuse me. Let me say that again. My voice is breaking. As I was leaving Dealey Plaza, no one tried to stop me. There were two police officers within 25 feet. I didn't run. I just walked off, just like a businessman walking away from a lunch. When my dog died, someone else had to take it to the vet because I couldn't do it. Files believes he and Nicoletti both fired on JFK at the same precise time. Dr David Mantic says he thinks JFK was hit once in the right rear and then again from the right front. Mantic also says there were traces of mercury, and files claims he fired a Mercury round. Files story about Nicoletti predates Holt's information. We're told files just couldn't be making it up. A prison warden claims that Foxtrot Bravo India agents came to visit files, although I'm not sure exactly what this would prove, since you have supposedly retired Foxtrot Bravo India agents all over this investigation and all throughout this documentary, like I'm not sure that that proves anything one way or the other other than perhaps, were they all in cahoots? Is this a concocted story? We go back now to files. Oswald was intelligent with a high IQ. He was meant to plant evidence to mislead everyone. I don't think he knew his life was in danger. Oswald never fired a shot. Now I've written in my personal notes this contradicts Judith Barry Baker's story, that Oswald did know that his life was in danger, that he did suspect something bad was going to happen to him. If you go back and watch the Docu series, the men who killed Kennedy in the episode The Love Affair, that's specifically about Judith, Barry Baker and Lee Harvey Oswald, she claims that he did know that he called and he was upset, and they had some weird conversation about, you should have a lot of babies. You're a good person. I'm probably not going to make it through this, but you have a lot of babies for me. And she's crying, and it's just weird, but I'm like, according to her, he did know that his life was in danger. Now we've got files saying, I don't think he knew his life was in danger. Files claims he has never read anything about JFK murder and that killing him was like taking out the garbage. We're told James files is the only person to confess to the murder. But again, if you watch the men who killed Kennedy Docu series, you see the whole crazy story of the Marseille mobsters and these people, David and all those guys, claiming that they knew who the pop poppers were and that they were involved. So I don't think it's quite fair to say that he's the only person, the only human in all of history so far that's come up with some story that he did it when I said I felt like 99 cents was about the right price point, although free would have been even better, I stand by that assessment. Me. Personally, I don't give a lot of credence to this guy. Anytime that somebody is in jail, and you have to wonder if they're making it up in order to try to get some kind of benefit. I mean, he said, we're told in this documentary that he said, I will confess. I will tell you the full story, if I can get immunity, right there, you have a motive for somebody to make something up. It's as if to say, I will give you the key to solving this tremendous murder mystery, something that conspiracy theorists the world over have thought about for decades. Now, I am the linchpin. I will give you the key to the mystery, but I need immunity. I'm not going to tell you for free. I'm not going to do a confession, just to confess. I want something out of it that automatically, I think, for me, it's just my opinion and it could be wrong, that automatically casts a shadow over what's being said, because you have an ulterior motive.

And even though Bugliosi really toes the official line, it was Oswald acting alone. The Warren Commission got it right. And I think that James di Eugenio does an excellent job in his book reclaiming parkland, of debunking all that. All of this needs to be separate episodes for some other time. I have to say on this one, I agree with Bugliosi and his assessment the Rodney Dangerfield of Kennedy pop poppers. That's so funny to me. That characterization, no respect, he comes across. And this is, again, I'm being super editorial here. I'm giving you my personal opinion, and it could be wrong. It's just my perception, and that's it. There are times in the doc. Documentary, where his eyes are all over the place, and he seems shifty, and what he reminds me of, I'm thinking back to what I would call my drinking days, back when I was early to mid 20s, and it just wasn't the weekend if we weren't tearing it up, going to honky tonks, going to see live music, going to concerts, hanging out in bars. That's just what we like to do. And he reminds me of this type of guy that you encounter probably in any part of the country, really, but I'm thinking in particular in the Midwest, older guy that comes into the bar, and he's all the time trying to chat somebody up, whether he's trying to make time with a woman that's way too young for him, or he's trying to impress some guy, or some group of guys. He comes into the bar and he wants to tell tall tales. It's like the fish story, where by the time the man has told the story 50 times, the fish goes from being a guppy to being the size of a beluga whale, just that type of person. Like, it's not good enough to tell one story and stick to it. He just strikes me as a braggart, somebody that's going to be like, well, if it was an inch, it was a mile, and he's going to sit there and talk your ear off at the bar, and you're like, yeah, like, please go away. Please find somebody else to go and talk to. And the comments, murdering Kennedy was the same as taking out the trash. It just wasn't any big deal to me. I feel like that's made for shock value. It's made, I guess, in his mind, to bolster his believability. The story of whenever my dog died, I couldn't even take the dog to the vet to be euthanized. I had to get my wife and a friend to go do it, because I'm just such a softy, but I can murder Jack. It's not any big deal for me to do that.

I... this just doesn't pass the sniff test for me. I don't ever tell you what to do or what to think. I want you to to come to your own conclusions about this guy. Maybe you go along with the people that think he's credible, and they think that he's telling the truth, that he has some secret information that's never been published, and there's no way that he could have gotten it, therefore he must be telling the truth some casing that was found in 1987 that many years you think about how many people have been around that grassy knoll looking for evidence, and suddenly this casing magically turns up in 1987 with teeth marks on it. And we're told that there's no way he could have known that this casing had teeth marks on it, so it must have been him. It's way too circumstantial for me, and I just based on his body language, based on the way that he presents himself in the documentary, I don't believe him. He may be privy to some amount of information. And look, it may very well be possible that he was in at some flunky level with the mob. It's possible that he was recruited on some flunky level to do the bidding of the Charlie India alpha. And this could all be some kind of crazy ass disinformation or misinformation campaign. I'm thinking now of Richard Condon's book winner kills. It was the mafia. No, it was Hollywood. No, it was a spurned ex lover, no, it was an angry husband. No, it was somebody in the family. No, it was an intelligence agency. No. I mean, no, it was no. It was no, it was and then Nick goes on this wild goose chase that seems to never end. It could be that the story of James files is just another shrimp that gets thrown on the barbie to send people off on a wild goose chase. Because while we're sitting here wondering, is this guy sincere? What's his motive? He claims that he has this information, and maybe some of it seems like it could be on the up and up, we're going down a rabbit hole that, in my mind, is probably going to lead to nowhere. Stay a little bit crazy and I will see you in the next episode.

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